Sunday, June 28, 2009

But The Westside is Different!

How many more times will we hear that one? Denial is not a river in Egypt. It is interesting to see homeowners who bought during the 2000s defend their purchase, even though, all the signs point towards a continued price correction. EZ credit that fueled the housing bubble is gone and the air is rushing out now. To think that Westside buyers didn't take advantage of the credit bubble is nonsense. If anything else, they are probably more leveraged, due to a one time shot at liar loans, interest only and option arms. The end result has just been delayed 6 months due to goverment tricks and is now scheduled to hit at the end of this year. Waiting it out will not be the best strategy for these sellers and they need to get serious about dumping their homes before taking on water. The Alt-A / Prime Tsunami is landing soon. The Westside is no different and will see close to 50% declines


Anonymous said...

second that.

Anonymous said...

for those who live on the westside--CC/Mar Vista in particular: do your neighbors look like they are stressed and looking to sell due to unemployment, etc? There is a lot of high level evidence being presented, but it would be very helpful as well if we can get some first hand on the ground info.


Clarence Boddicker said...

Great post, succint and dead-on.

I don't know about Culver City or Mar Vista, but I'll tell you, Santa Monica & Palisades are already starting to show strain.

I drove down one block in Palisades a couple weeks ago & saw 6 houses on the market. When I got home I did some research & discovered that 4 of the 6 homes had been bought within the last 5 years... BING BING BING.

Now sure there are plenty of other possible explanations (empty-nesters, etc.. it is June, after all) but drive around, you'll see a lot more "For Rent" signs up too.

Owners are totally stressed-out, well, many of them are.

Anonymous said...

Yep, I have noticed a really astonishing number of signs popping up north of Montana and, even more so, north of Sunset in Brentwood.

The trend seemed to really start in March and April, and so far, I have seen few if any of the signs come down.

Statistically speaking, the alt-a/option arm wave will be for the upper end what the sub prime was for the lower end. Should start to get really interesting this fall and build right through to 2012.

The real wild card is the prime sector, which has already shown signs of trouble. If/when the alt-a/option arm foreclosure wave hits, how will this in turn affect the prime sector? It sure will be interesting to watch this unfold.

Anonymous said...

latesummer2009's analysis is right on the money, but Obama and his advisors will set up another scheme to help all these folks that are going to be defaulting. Again, the irresponsible buyers will be saved and prices will be not go down.

Anonymous said...

I just found out about another Brentwood house which is likely to be rented instead of sold to prevent a "loss". Rent will not cover their costs. This home is way up Kenter. How long do you think it will take fore people with means to get tired of renting otu homes for less than the interest on their mortgages? In this case the husband lost his financial industry job and has work in New York so they have to move. There is nothing for him here. The other case I am aware of was a move to Orange County to cut costs where the family business has contracted and they were maxed out. People seem to prefer to be in shadow inventory than to take a loss.

Anonymous said...

Prices are down about 25%, even north of montana. However, it's still a lot of money at $1.7 or so for a tear down North of Montana for a quiet street. (don't start to tell me about a lot across from section 8 housing for less please). I know people who aren't working, but they are getting help from family to hold it together until the next job comes or they are using savings. I don't know long these folks will last. They won't give up their homes easily.

Anonymous said...

Even at 50% off their peak these homes are expensive, and 99% of people posting in this forum will not be able to afford a 700K home in Santa Monica.

"Face it": school teachers, city employees and bus drivers will need to buy in Downey or Carson. Let the doctors and lawyers have the Westside- they earned it!

People who do not make enough to live on the Westside will not be magically teleported to a time when they can afford it.

WestIsBest said...

I just hope that the doctors and lawyers who bought on the westside in the last five years don't decide to walk away from their moral obligations to pay the mortgages they contracted for just because their homes are worth 50% less on paper. As long as most of them decide to do the right thing we should be okay.

Anonymous said...

"People who do not make enough to live on the Westside will not be magically teleported to a time when they can afford it."

Wow, I didn't realize that homes next to the Mar Vista Gardens housing project were worth $700,000!

"Let Them Eat Cake!" should be the new title of this blog.

Request: Would all of you people who believe that Westside=Santa Monica please move to the blog dedicated to Santa Monica (Santa Monica Distress Properties".

Thank you, from 90066 (a zipcode that is will be affordable to working people and professionals in the near future).

JeffL said...

Mandeville Canyon Road, although not exactly the "Westside", is "Westside" - priced, and looks to be a poster child for the coming price implosion.

This 5 mile long road had 27 (yes, not a typo, 27!) FOR SALE signs on it 2 weeks ago. The prices are already significanly lower than what was asking 2 years ago. Also, many of the older homes have been renovated/mcMansion-ized over the past couple of years. Two are not completed, but appear to have stopped construction/renovation completely.

I was purposely riding my bike up the hill on a Sunday @ 2pm a few weeks ago to check on open-house traffic. Virtually none.

Anonymous said...

I agree. Maybe we should separate the housing categories for people who make less than 200k and people who make over 200k. My family and I are at the 140k area, and we cannot afford a shack in culver city. then again, 140k is like minimum wage in CC.

speedingpullet said...

JeffL - I hear you on the crazy number of Mandeville Canyon listings. IIRC one of the 'under construction' properties was being offered for $700k - which was pretty much land value only. It was only listed for a month or so, and then went inactive via ZipRealty

TBH -you'd have to be a contractor and have a fleet of pet contractors to make that place viable - even the listing said it was a shell.

Don't know if the sellers are using the same realtors but I've noticed a sort of pattern with the listings - they'll go on for between 90 - 120 days, go inactive and then get relisted (often for the same price) - rinse lather repeat.

There's been a LOT of new ones in the last several months, but there's 3 or 4 that have been B.O.M since early 2008.

And, yes, now you mention it - I've never seen an Open House there either.

IIRC - Mandeville Canyon (90049) is classed as Brentwood, so North of Montana-ish ;-)

I'd love one of the not-McMansions up there, especially one with a little bit of flat land at the back.

Anonymous said...

For the sake of all of us, consider not taking a bike up Mandeville - the drivers are crazy and mow down the bicycle riders.

I know this comment has nothing to do with real estate but two of my close friends were mangled while riding bikes on Westside streets

one is still in a wheelchair because of this.

Do you really want to put your health in the hands of the drivers here '?

Anonymous said...

We are screwed! See link below:

There's no hope that prices will come down anytime with gov't stalling tactics and eventual bailout of irresponsible lenders and homeowners.

This sucks. Fuck the gov't. Responsible people are getting screwed with these sky high prices that won't fall to reasonable levels bc of gov't intervention.

I am not asking for CC houses to drop to 300k, but comes pieces of shit homes should not be going for 650k.

Anonymous said...

Ha - first the West Side of Los Angeles voted for amnesty for a million illegal aliens. That smart move bankrupted our state.

Then the West side of Los Angeles voted for the bailout of banks and homeowners and in that way propped up up housing prices on the West Side above where they should be (relative to incomes)

If you want to know who to blame for the sorry state of things, look in the mirror.

Anonymous said...

As a Mandeville canyon bike rider, I don't see half as many for sale on Westridge and adjoining streets.

For many Westside owners the Bank of Mom and Dad (or legacy thereof) is what's always kept them going. It got them their debt-free UCLA/USC education, got the down payment on their place, saw them through economic downturns....

I don't think the populists frequenting this blog will ever see any satisfaction because there is almost no economic peril at the Brentwood-level prosperity. The long-time savers/residents are all pretty old with plenty of economic reserves and their children are generally economically assisted whenever needed.

Anonymous said...

The Bank of Mom and Dad is broke. The NY Times ran a big story on the so called trustee brats.

The crash has taken trillions of dollars of wealth away from "Mom and Dad's" bank--now their slacker kids actually have to find a job.

Everything is going to change--the worst is yet to come.

speedingpullet said...

Anon 9.10:
I don't think the populists frequenting this blog will ever see any satisfaction because there is almost no economic peril at the Brentwood-level prosperity.

Is that fancy talk for 'its different here' and 'the rich will save us'? :-)

Coz, you know - we were just discussing the many, many places in Mandeville Canyon that are for sale....

Anonymous said...

Why is Westridge more popular than Mandeville? Is it the views from the Westridge homes? Just curious since I am now looking at that neighborhood for the first time.

Anonymous said...

After reading this blog, I'm a little confused. I realize no one has a crystal ball, and we can't determine how much the Westside will cost, on average, one year from now, but it seems like everyone is forcasting massive drops in house pricing, but it isn't happening.

Could you all try to help me understand why properties keep coming on the market in the 90066 and 90230/90232 zip codes for 650K and up?

Here is one that just came on the market. It was bought in 1999 for 241K (wow!) sold in 2007 for 599K (ouch!) and had some serious remodeling done to it somewhere along the way.

It is now listed for 750K (super ouch) but it looks very nice inside. Our agent will be taking us to see it soon. Using the current theory of LateSummer (should we now call him "MidWinter2010" ;p ), will this house reach the 300K price range?

Or, are properties that were built up with substantial remodels (like this one) outside of those "we will return to 1999 pricing" parameters?

Thanks for any detailed feedback. The wife and I are thinking about pulling the trigger on a house, and we just moved here from Dallas.



Anonymous said...

Btw, just to circumvent any "Westside is a bad place to live" **spurious** argumentation, we want to live in this area. So, if at all possible, please refrain from any advice about moving to Pacific Palisades, Brentwood. I am also looking at Ladera Park (not really "Westside").

My law firm is off of Slauson, and we can easily afford a 750K house, but we would rather pay as little as possible (of course!).

Thanks again for all forcasting-related comments.


Anonymous said...

"Ha - first the West Side of Los Angeles voted for amnesty for a million illegal aliens. That smart move bankrupted our state....If you want to know who to blame for the sorry state of things, look in the mirror."

True the voters need to look in the mirror for the sorry state of affairs, but illegal aliens are the leas of the economic concerns...really just a drop in the bucket of net income to the state...especially when you consider all the cheap labor, construction, restaurant meals, produce, day-care, lawn-care that it has afforded the state...not to mention the taxes paid by all of the "illegal immigrants." (sales tax, gasoline tax, income tax etc.)

The problems with the balance sheet lie more in Prop 13 which led to an over-reliance on income tax, over-paid and underperfoming tenured teachers, too many police, too many prisons, over-paid state employees etc...Remember all those little propositions that Gov. Arnold had a special election for that everyone laughed at? Well OK then, the unions can get people to vote so that you can get tenure to teach a friggin' high-school class and get paid to read a newspaper while no one gets taught anything...we'll just let the money run out and lay a bunch of people off.

Taking anything away from existing budgets is like political suicide on a local and national level, so we just have to let things blow-up before any financial sanity can resume.

speedingpullet said...

Joe - could I suggest you rent for a year or two before you buy?

If you're new in from TX, it might take a while to get to know neighbourhoods that might be a good fit for you.

As for how far prices are going to fall - who knows?

Some people here stand by their belief that there's something different about the Westside, and that prices will never drop, or won't drop much more.

Others see prices eventually coming down to pre-bubble (around 1999) prices with a small annual appreciation on top.

I think most people here agree that prices have not increased in the last year, so you're not going to miss out on a deal if you wait another year or so.

Prices are 'sticky' here, and the Westside is still up there in the Top 10 most expensive places to buy in the US.

In any case - I'd strongly suggest that you find a nice rental in an area you like, and take weekend drives around areas that interest you, before you pull the trigger and actually buy.

Anonymous said...

I second that .

Each neighborhood is different from the next - you need to take time to get to know them

it is well known that if you had $3.0 million to spend, you would need to look at the following fine neighborhoods: North of Montana, Huntington palisades, Brentwood Park.

With 750k to you should instead look at Palms, Mar Vista, Westchester and Culver City

anyway take the time to look

Anonymous said...

speedingPullet: No, the rich won't save us.

That makes no sense anyway you phrase it. What would we be save from?

Anon@9:57, I have no idea why the hillside homes aren't being sold like the canyon ones. Of course, it could be my oxygen-starved brain just not registering them when I'm on the bike.

Anonymous said...

Dallas people - where were you living when you were in Dallas?

We have neighborhoods here that are identical to Preston Hollow and other neighborhoods identical to Highland Park - and others like Richardson. Describe where you were living in Dallas and I can tell you the equivalent here in LA

Anonymous said...

Seems that Culver City and Mar Vista are discussed a lot. Anyone have thoughts (or know of a blog) focused on Venice and/or Marina del Rey.

I can't believe there are homes amongst the gangbangers in Venice (esp. Oakwood) listed for $1M +

Some areas (e.g. silver triangle) have become slighty gentrified, but I think the whole area is at risk of "turning" given the current economy, unemployment, etc. (e.g. I've noticed lot's of car window glass up and down Main St. South of Rose.)

Any thoughts or comments appreciated!

Anonymous said...

The Triangle area is largely gentrified, and I'd love to live there. I'm not going to hold my breath for affordable house prices in Venice... Somewhere I read that price/sq ft was higher in Venice than even Beverly Hills!

Listen- and I don't want to aggravate the hate squad by saying this- for whatever misguided reasons Venice is super hot, and I do not think the 50% below peak will apply to this area.

Just my opinion- don't go aggro on me all you "market is plummeting to 1996" guys! lol

Anonymous said...

There is room for all opinions here.

One thing i noticed in NYC is that a neighborhood can stay seedy and scummy looking and still rocket upwards in value. Been to the east village recently>? seedy and sketchy and still selling for 900 a square foot (today july 09)

i hate venice - it smells - but i would bet on it staying super expensive

Anonymous said...

Actually, the cheap labor is a large part of the problem. The disparity in income in CA is astonishing, and to some degree, the widening gap between the rich and the middle class/poor has to do with illegal immigration (see Increased supply of labor drives down wages, especially when much of that labor is paid in cash and thus, sadly, circumvents even the meager government attempts to legislate living wages for the poorest citizens.

The top 1% of Californians now make an astounding 30% of all income in the state, more than twice the share of income they made just 15 years ago. The bottom 4/5ths of Californians (80% of us) make less than 9% more then we did in 1995, when prices of everything were far, far lower. Adjusting for inflation, the vast majority of Californians are getting poorer at a rapid clip.

This disparity was masked for many by the housing bubble and illusory housing "wealth". But with bubble over, this disparity will grow increasingly obvious. The disparity means that it is growing increasingly hard for new home owners to put together down payments. This will undercut the lower and even middle sectors of the housing market from here on out.

Of course, even though median Westside incomes DID go up quite a bit during the bubble, they at BEST went up 50% since 200 (and probably rose closer to 35% on average). This hardly justifies 100-200% increases in houses, especially in Mar Vista and Culver City, where median incomes are a far cry from those in Pacific Palisades.

Anonymous said...

IMO, in only very, very specific areas will price hold (i.e. stagnate) due to wealthy cash buyers.

CC/MV, Sunset Park, VENICE, etc. will drop; a lot. Visited a "sustainable" house on Venice Way two weeks ago. They want almost $2M and there's already graffiti/tagging on the property!!

Going down...

Anonymous said...

-Where is the general vicinity of the silver triangle?

-What kind of income level would one need to afford a 650k house? 200k plus?

Anonymous said...

re: neighborhoods, just check wikipedia.

re: 650K vs. income. a normal average would be a loan at 3x income. in CA, banks may go as high as 4x post bubble. that is, 170K should get you 650K in a normal cycle with a traditional mortgage product, not too much down etc.

Anonymous said...

Hi Joe,

My husband's company moved its office from Santa Monica to Slausen so I am looking in that area too to cut his commute at some point. Ladera Heights looks really good to me. If you look at the incomes they are very high, similar to Santa Monica, yet the home prices are not as high (not cheap either). The crime rate is lower than 90402 according to the link i use from redfin for crime stats. It is primarily african american with smaller percentages of everything else. That is the only reason i can think of for lower prices because the homes and yards are large, the air is fresh and the edcation levels are high. Upper Ladera has always been nice and is well insulted from less desireable neighborhoods aka Inglewood. The schools are terrible and everyone there sends their kids to private schools. One home in Upper ladera closed recently for under $600k, it was probably a fixer. Several are listed under $700k.

As for redmodels, when you look at a 2000 rollback you want what it would have sold for remodeled at that time. I prefer to do my own remodeling to get the house the way I want it, plus I have enough cash on hand to pay for one. If I get an old 50's home I will want to keep it more or less period. I like that look. Most of the modern remodels are too cookie cutter for my tastes. I have worked on several houses we have owned and know how to go about it now.

A real cream puff of a house is less likely to drop to $300k. You do need to add in value, but not as much as most people are adding in. A $100k remodel does not add $500k to the value. In fact usually they add less than the $100k to resale value.

Like the others I recommend renting until you find an area you like. Westchester has a certain charm as well. Once again if you have kids those schools are terrible, but there are tons of good private schools as a result and not all are as expensive as the ones around Santa Monica like Brentwood School or Crossroads.

Neighborhoods are really a matter of personality and taste. Some people will prefer a neighborhood where everyone looks like them and others, like me, don't care.

As for remodels

Anonymous said...


If you got the cash, stick to West of 405, North of Venice Blvd and East of Lincoln.

Anonymous said...


I think the advice you are getting to wait is spot on.

When my wife and I moved here originally we had two neighborhoods we really thought we wanted to live in but after spending a year in LA we realized that what we really wanted was different.

Strong advice - rent something big and comfortable for a year and spend your weekends hanging out in different neighborhoods in your price range

Anonymous said...

Ms. Ladera Hights, can you tell us more about that neighborhood?

My family is mixed race and we would be comfortable living anywhere - we can consider Ladera and also Baldwin Hills.

Can you compare and contrast Ladera and Baldwin? Different vibe in the two places?

Does literally everyone keep their front yard mowed and their house looking nice, or are their some people that let the properties go?

(I am asking because if you look at some of the SFR's between Wilshire and Montana in the 20's you actually see dome disgusting and decrepit houses that bring down the neighborhood)

Also - I know the reported crime levels for Ladera and Baldwin are low - when you talk to the people that live there do you feel like these low crime rates are accurate or do you think there is a lot more property crime in those two neighborhoods that just isn't reported?

Is there a neighborhood watch ? How do they keep the crime rate so low.

Reason I ask is that it just seems that when an upper middle income neighborhood is located right near a poor neighborhood (and there are poor neighborhoods around there) the crime from poor neighborhood spills out

Again, the ethnic and racial composition of Ladera Heights and Baldwin Hills isn't important to me but all the other factors are

Anonymous said...

Upper Ladera Heights has all nice yards as far as I could see. I have not talked to the residents, but there is a community watch and newsletter that is on-line. The neighborhood from my computer searches is known for being mixed race friendly although I did run in to one person who moved out because the family thought it would become whiate again and it did not. Crazy if you ask me.

I have done a lot of looking around over there and it is extremely friendly and I am very white. I also go to the Inglewood Costco and it is my favorite. There is just less of the stiffness I associate with the higher strung neighborhoods in West LA. I imagine some fo that is cultural as I also feel very comfortable in low end latino neighborhoods after living in Mexico for a year.

I know nothing of Baldwin Hills although looking at the geography I doubt it has as good air quality. I hav enot looked there because I want to be withins pitting distance of my husband's office. I am also considering Fox Hills because I could pick up somethign really cheap there, save the difference and invest into our downturn. My great grandfather made a fortune buying up stocks during the depressionw hich his grandchildren spent all of LOL. I didn't get anything except the lesson to be courages when others are fearful and fearful when they are optimistic.

I know one home schooler who lives in the worst part of Ladera Heights east of La Cienega and she loves it. She told me it is very safe where she is as long as she does not cross La Brea.

Unlike Venice or Culver City Ladera Heights has never been a bad neighborhood and as you drive through it really shows. Many people simply do not realize the neighbrohood exists. My massage therapist has lived here forever and told me she likes that area as well. It is like a hidden gem.

Once again schools do matter and they are part of the Inglewood School district which for most people who are well educated and want to stay out of trouble is simply not an option. I know from looking at homes and reading that people there use private schools and I can also tell you that the home shooling community in the Westchester/Culver City area is much larger than Santa Monica/West LA or up in the Valley.

The yards look so nice in ladera Heights that it is more like Brentwood and is nicknamed "The Black Brentwood". You and I are in a similar price bracket and most homes are more expensive. We'd be at the bottom rung of home value which is always good for resale.

Go drive around and let me know what you think.

Anonymous said...

I will drive around. Let's keep using this blog as a way to communicate

also - you should spend some time in the Hahn recreation area - really beautiful facilities there

Latesummer2009 said...

The bigger they are the harder they fall. Venice will get hammered as lots are small, no parking and high crime will be important again. I don't care who buys there. The area is grossly overpriced and will decreasd 50 percent. The correction has barely started on the Westside. Serious signs of stress appear at the emd of summer.

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much for all this amazing information. We lived in Highland Park, Dallas, but that isn't where I'm originally from. I'm from upstate NY, and went to Dallas for my first legal job.

I am convinced that we need to rent for a while. For the two posters discussing Ladera Heights- thanks for such thoughtful and detailed information.

In many parts of upstate NY (i.e. the Capital Region) many neighborhoods are very racially mixed (Cohoes a little, but around Albany proper most suburbs are very diverse) and we would like to find such an area on the Westside.

Schools are not an issue for us, and we could even stretch our budget a bit to afford something a bit more, so Ladera Heights sounds really nice. We love spending time in Culver City and at the Bridge (Howard Hughes Parkway). Most of the houses in CC are on the small side, and Ladera Heights has bigger homes that are closer to my office.

So many of my friends are moving out here, particularly ones from law school (not as many from Albany; but a lot from Manhattan). They are all coming out with a lot of money saved up over the last few years, and are waiting to jump into Culver City, Santa Monica, etc. Up until Sept 08, most people in my field had the most lucrative years on record. I can think of 8 people moving to California this summer (actually, 4 already did the move) in order to buy into the Westside (or, really, surrounding areas like Manhattan beach too). It is really weird, what I see happening seems to contradict what everyone is saying (i.e. people are leaving).

Several of my co-workers bought during the height of the bubble, and I hear about their woes incessantly.. They have no fear of loosing their homes, they just don't like being on the loosing side of an investment (or anything for that matter- damn lawyers! hehe).

Thanks again for your kind and sage advice. I'll be reading this blog after the 4th- we are going out to Long Island to have some summer fun!

Have a great 4th of July!


Anonymous said...

"Actually, the cheap labor is a large part of the problem. The disparity in income in CA is astonishing, and to some degree, the widening gap between the rich and the middle class/poor has to do with illegal immigration"

...I guess we should kick-out all of the "illegals", and then whites can take jobs as dish-washers, field hands, construction workers and yard workers...then they can unionize so they can all make $100k/year...wait that's "poor" for the Westside...make that $300k/year. With all of this housing wealth floating around right now, people should have no problem paying $50 for a meal at McDonalds, $1,000/week to have their lawn mowed and $1mil to build a shack on an empty lot. I mean...look how well it worked out for GM and Ford!! And look how well it's working out for the state of California! Get all of those poor Mexicans out of here that keep pushing labor prices down so we can get back to making some real money raking leaves!

Anonymous said...

Finally people are getting over their fear of historic black neighborhoods! Ladera Heights was called 'Pill Hill' for all the black doctors who lived there....its really great. Schools suck, but thats what private school is for.

Anonymous said...

Historic black neighborhoods will only get your house buglarized at best--at worst, you may be the victim of a serious crime.

I have to laugh at when affluent white people put down $500,000 for a house in the hood and then expect that the 20 paroled felons that live within 800 feet of their new home are going to instantly become responsible citizens.

Anonymous said...

Just ignore the trolls.

There is are lot of benefits to living in a diverse neighborhood.

By the way, Highland Park alongside Turtle Creek is perhaps the most beautiful neighborhood in America. The stretch of houses facing the creek are all tastefully done. What a great area. I especially like the community swimming pool that brings all the kids in the neighborhood together in one place. And you can't beat the 6 minute drive to downtown.

nothing like Highland Pak exists in California - no beautiful neighborhoods where your house is on an acre of land, six minutes from downtown.

Not here

Anonymous said...

"Historic black neighborhoods will only get your house buglarized at best--at worst, you may be the victim of a serious crime."

We should really start considering erecting a border-fence around the West Side.

Anonymous said...


I would hold my horses if I were you re: buying anything out here. I know you are in the warm and fuzzy phase of living in LA. The weather is great, beaches, beautiful people, chill factor. But half of the people I know that move out here end up hating it in a few yrs (traffic, pollution, people, etc.)

It is all part of the love and hate relationship everyone has with LA who is not from here.

Just my two cents. Plus, you sound like a smart, and why the hell would you want to lose 10-20% if you buy now?

Anonymous said...


The most mixed area I know of is Westchester. You can look online at teh racial mixes. It is another area many educated middle-class blacks are moving in to. When I drove by the playground kids of all races were playing together. I used to live near one of the Santa Monica grade schools and on the playground the kids were divided by race in their play. The downside to Westchester is that the prices are similar to Ladera Heights, but the homes and yards are smaller.

As for crime, don't delude yourselves. Ladera Heights has lower crime than 90402 and incomes like Rancho Palos Verdes and Santa Monica. Neither Westchester nor Ladera Heights is full of bums. Westchester is dominated by Loyola Marymount University and that adds to the neighborhood.

Have fun on Long Island.

As for jobs moving out, my husband is in high tech and survived 3 rounds of lay-offs. They did them GE style were 10% were let go from each area whether it made sense or not. I can tell you that the high tech job market is very brutal right now, just like after the tech bubble popped.

Lefty said...

Do Brentwood and Westwood have less crime than Santa Monica?

Anonymous said...

Haven't looked at any stats, but I suspect Brentwood is quite low, but equivalent to 90402 (SM North of Montana). South SM (i.e. Sunset Park; Pico) I suspect is considerably higher than Brentwood. Venice is higher for sure. Westwood is probably somewhere in between SM and Brentwood, but crime would probably be more localized near UCLA, or the South end.

my 2 cents...

Anonymous said...

There are different types of crime -
Venice has both property crime and violent crime that are very high

90402 has high property crime but low violent crime

90402 attracts lots of burglars and car thieves since it is well known to offer very nice pickings

Some poor violent people hang around in venice - and they wind up getting drunk and stoned and raping, stabbing and murdering each other. Almost no poor violent people live in the 90402, and almost no poor violent people hang out there. The retail on Montana is not set up to appeal to that demographic.

To get a sense for this, spend a summer weekend walking up and down Montana and the 90402 - then go to Venice and walk around. You can see the difference immediately

(for example, young men in venice showing off gang tats or prison tats - you see very few gang and prison tats in the 90402)

By the way, many people prefer to live in venice rather than the 90402. Venice is spicier, edgier, more interesting - some wealthy people accept the downside of venice and like living on the edge

Anonymous said...

fuck these east coasters, They are in for a rude awakening. No jobs, super bad traffic and skin cancer.

Anonymous said...

these prices better come down otherwise I am going to go postal on all those east coasters.

i am fifth generation LA native, make 140k/yr and still can't afford one of those 650k shacks my folks bought for 50k 25 yrs back.


Anonymous said...

fifth generation? So what. Go move somewhere else.

What do you think has happened to the fifth generation of kids to grow up in Nantucket or the fifth generation to grow up in La Jolla or the fifth generation to grow up in Telluride? All of them are kicked the hell out of town. What makes you think LA is any different than any other of the other places in which the fifth generation has been forced to exit

Anonymous said...

When I looked up the 90402 murder rates they were actually high. I was quite surprised.

Anonymous said...

I don't think Brentwood and Westwood have less crime than Santa Monica, but you can look up stats by zip code. Go in to redfin, click on any individual home and scroll down on the description. There is a link to community statistics and it will give you racial profile, incomes and crime on any given zip code. There is property crime all over. An alarm system is essential here for any SFR or ground floor unit. That will not change much by neighborhood, but ones that are easy tog et in and out of quickly will have more crime because thieves like an exit strategy. Neighborhood watch programs also help as do large dogs.

Anonymous said...

Our experience has been that, in general, the higher number of non-Caucasian people, the higher the crime rate in that area.

Anonymous said...

Yes it may be true that different racial groups have different crime rates.

There are plenty of other blogs that show crime stats by race - the most crime prone races are 15 times as likely to commit a crime as the least crime prone races

But this blog is not the place for such discussions. I humbly request no more posts on this topic so we can get back to real estate

Anonymous said...

white people commit crimes too, but they just don;t caught or punish at such a high rate.

Anonymous said...

This is LA! if you are not comfortable living amongst other races, you should get your white ass back to where ever you are from. Piss off.

Anonymous said...

I agree with all the posters so far. There are plenty of crime differences but let's not discuss them

back to RE

Anonymous said...

this blog is a place to discuss real estate not political stuff

Anonymous said...

Crime stats are very relecant to pricing as is the perceived quality of schools. Race is nto relevant other than preference for mixtures. I personally prefer as mixed a neighborhood as possible and love my Persian neighbors upstairs.

Anonymous said...

ppl are really referring to afican americans and latino migrants, not oil rich, light skinned persians (Iranians) who are well educated. Come on now.

Anonymous said...

Anon July 1, 2009 5:37 PM,

Thanks for the information. I'm really excited about expanding the areas I am searching in.

On another note, looking at the direction this thread is going, I'm not inclined to post on it. Even the most recent blog post has a lot of people throwing insults- not savory at all!

Long Island, btw, was great fun. I'm seeing more and more of the Hamptons in parts of Venice, CA. The similarities are weird..

Joe (the "lawyer" not the "plumber" ;p )

Be well people, and don't succumb to racial slurs. There is no need for prejudice to rear its ugly head here.

Anonymous said...

When you check out those other areas, let us know what you think. I believe some are underrated. To me is paying for a status nieghbrohood is like eating at a restaraunt where I have to pay for the decor. I prefer just to have my money go in to really good food. The status does not do it for me. Brentwood, 90402 and parts of Venice are status areas. Playa Del Rey, Westchester and Ladera Heights sseem not to be. Likewsie Culver City and Mar Vista just don't have the same status as some other areas. What I want is either a condo with good amenities or a home withe a decent sized yard.